Inside the Proud Boys jury
With yesterday's Proud Boys verdicts, 14 right-wing extremists have now been convicted of seditious conspiracy against the United States for their roles in planning and executing the Jan. 6 attack.
Don't miss VICE News' Tess Owen on the trial, Enrique Tarrio, and the potential 20-year sentences the Proud Boys and Oath Keepers now face.
Andre Mundell, a 63-year-old retired DC resident, sat on the Proud Boys jury hearing evidence since February. I sat down with Mundell just hours after the verdicts were rendered and jurors were excused. Our conversation has been edited for length.
How quickly was the jury convinced on the seditious conspiracy charges?
The first day we elected a foreman. After that, we all put out our initial impressions of the evidence. We all voted and most people saw the evidence pointed towards seditious conspiracy. By the second day we had pretty much established guilty verdicts on the conspiracy, since that was count number one. First of all, we had to establish that there was a conspiracy then that it was a seditious conspiracy, because that involved the use of force. Not to overthrow the government, but to interfere with the government by use of force.
What evidence convinced you that the Proud Boys had entered into a seditious conspiracy?
It was all the chatter. All the chats. Parler, Telegram…those Telegram text messages back and forth. Not just the chats, but also the private texts. I think that was what it boiled down to. What they had to say prior to Jan. 6 and the fact that they wanted to do so much in secret. And that's why the government couldn't present too much of the evidence that they had already deleted, because it was unrecoverable. So, they definitely didn't want people to know. The Proud Boys didn't want everybody to know the plan, because then I guess it would have gotten out. And they didn't want it to get out.
Did it matter that there were significant amounts of messages deleted?
That factored in for me. It showed an absence of evidence of standing down. No one says, "no, don't do this. We're not going to do this." There was none of that. And that was probably because they never said it. And the things that were affirming that they were going to be violent. They just kind of let it happen.
Dominic Pezzola, "Spazzo", was acquitted on seditious conspiracy. Why was he acquitted when the others were found guilty?
Well, he wasn't in leadership for one. And he only joined the Proud Boys in November or December of 2020. So he didn't have a whole lot of time before Jan. 6. They have the different tiers you know, level 1 to level 4. Spazz was a 2 or 3 and on a fast track because he was so expressive of being a bad boy. We actually deadlocked on Spazz at first. But we got through that and said not guilty. Another factor was just that he wasn't the brightest bulb on the porch. And may not have been bright enough to really know about the plan. So I said, well, poor guy. He should've listened to his father-in-law, who told him "don't go."
What did you think of these guys in court for all these weeks? What was their demeanor like?
At the end Spazzo took the stand, and really let loose and showed who he really was. He got really hostile towards the prosecutor, saying "this is a show trial" and all of that. So that didn't play well with me. But we didn't dwell on that so much, because that was kind of expected. (Zachary) Rehl didn't get hostile. He just tried to play Mr. Innocent. And everybody's main argument was that they were there for peaceful protests. They wanted their voices to be heard. They want to stop the steal.
Did you buy that?
Oh, no. You don't stop the steal by breaking into the Capitol and over-running the police lines and beating up on and spraying the police. Rehl really got caught on cross examination after he was adamant that he never sprayed a police officer (with chemicals.) On cross that all fell apart when the video came out and it showed that he was spraying towards the cops.
Did you watch them during the verdict?
Yeah, Rehl cried. But he had cried on the stand. too. And Pezzola had cried on the stand. Enrique Terrio was kind of smug. He had kind of a smile because that's how he plays it. You know, he's the CEO. He was there for the notoriety. He was like an egomaniac to me. He always wanted to be the center of attention. And even though he got arrested on the fourth (of Jan.), he kind of was still calling the shots behind the scenes with those who he wanted to talk to..
Donald Trump famously told the Proud Boys, in September 2020 at the presidential debate, to "stand back and stand by." That came out in evidence in the trial. How important was that?
It was part of it. You can't single out one thing but the debate kind of got the ball rolling that the Proud Boys need to be part of this. We need to wait for the President to set things up. Then the tweet came (on Dec. 19) and Trump said, "Be there, will be wild." So they were there and they were wild.
It was reported at one point that a juror complained to the judge that she thought she was being followed. Did you have any experiences during the trial where you felt your safety was in question?
No, not at all. The juror who thought she was being followed, she came in and told the jurors that. The next day she told the judge. They investigated, and it turns out it was a homeless man. I thought she was being a little paranoid.
Did you feel like this was an impartial jury that was focused on the facts of the case and nothing else?
I do. One juror was anti-Trump, and she was hoping to weave him into conspiracies and such. But the evidence doesn't show anything that Trump did other than "be there, will be wild" and "stand back and stand by." That was his contribution to this case. Other than that, everyone was focused. I think they got a fair trial. And the reason I know that is that I'm now able to look things up and I'm learning all about the sidebars and motions and disputes. And I think we were very clear with the evidence we got.
Do you feel like you contributed something important to the country?
Oh, God. Yes. Yeah. I mean, it's heavy. That's part of why I need to decompress.
I think it's huge. It's something that needed to happen. I definitely think it's important because otherwise, somebody might get the idea that this is okay to do again.
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